Internment: Could it help fight terrorism?

[boatbuilder]

This subject seems to have been touched on by a few in one of the News topics so rather than tie up that topic, I have started this one for discussion if necessary.

The following, with this topic name as its headline, has just appeared on the BBC website so it might be a good starting point.

In the wake of the Manchester suicide bomb attack a former assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police has called for the reintroduction of internment camps.
With security services revealing there are 3,000 people engaged in plots in the UK and as many as 23,000 who have appeared on the radar of counter-terror agencies, Tarique Ghaffur - in charge during the 7/7 bombings - wrote in the Mail on Sunday that "a proper national debate" should take place.
But what would such a policy entail?.......READ MORE

[SL-Dave]

I have already mentioned my views previously. My views closely follow those from Liberty, "Martha Spurrier, director of rights group Liberty, said: "We're a civilised country. We believe in the rule of law - suspects knowing the case against them, standing trial and, if found guilty, being sent to prison by a judge. "This is the foundation of our free, democratic society - the exact thing terrorists want to destroy. "Countering the scourge of extremism will clearly be a priority for the next government - but they can and must do so while protecting our values more vigorously than ever.""

Going one step further, at the moment the discussion is about using internment camps for those suspected of terrorism - I note in the article these are all assumed to be Muslim, which would indicate a targeting of a particular religion. I am concerned, however, that over time this could be used for anyone considered to be using hate speech, something that would go against 'British Values', a key phrase being bandied about. In theory, having examined this phrasing and proposed citizenship test, it would also mean anyone that speaks out loud discussing the Bible could also be accused of hate speech; there have already been several court cases regarding this. And, as the Old Testament is also the Torah, this would also target Jews. And of course, the same texts make up part of the Koran, and we are back to Muslims again. This would mean that nobody of any religion is allowed to talk about their own beliefs - even if they are asked to by others - as they could later on be accused of hate speech. My following on of these trains of thought; what if those accused of hate speech were accused of attempting to spread hate and terror? Could this mean they would then be considered by the authorities as terrorists, and could it mean detention without trial in an internment camp??

And then we get into the murkier aspects whereby the laws against hate speech could be considered at odds and in dispute with the laws protecting religious freedoms. Ah, I forgot, we're already there...

[nikkai]

The nature of terrorism is such that there is no way to stop it !
IF an individual or group attack an area to kill and maim human life, their way of showing that "they have power to do so" unless there is a way to know what these ########## are doing so they can be stopped whatever they plan or carry out will happen in whatever name of whatever they or others claim.
I believe that this country (along with a few others) have all got a soft approach but use WORDS to give a feel good factor to the general people.
This country is and was a Christian country ! would Christians be permitted to do as they like in other religious states ? I believe NOT (I myself am not religious in any shape way or form, I can not see why one would want to claim their way is better or the only way and all other way are to be eradicated)
Our government and the forces to protect US say they are "watching" I think that is as far as they can go in FEAR of the watched bringing *victimization claims), which will win in OUR OWN COURTS against our own laws !
I have no idea on how to stop terrorism, and at the moment it has not affected me personally though I do think there will come a time when the "people will rise up against the terrorists and "we" will have yet another world war which with the destruction powers available will obliterate this world as you and I know it.

What ever has happened to respect of another life

[funkychick]

No of course not we aren't in the Middle Ages what next burn witches at the stake

[nikkai]

As I said I have no idea on how to stop or even minimize terrorism and locking people away may only fuel the problem, others of the same belief as those interned could "revolt" against the authority who run the camp(s)

I truly hope that the future isn't one of Waring nations over a cause which gets lost in the violence and murder.

[funkychick]

Sorry nikkai my post wasn't to you but in reply to the original question

[SL-Dave]

No of course not we aren't in the Middle Ages what next burn witches at the stake

Are you able to expand - as well as clarify which question you are answering? I'd love to know why you think we are completely safe from politics

[boatbuilder]

I would think FC means the topic subject question.

[Cowper]

This country is and was a Christian country ! would Christians be permitted to do as they like in other religious states ?

I think the answer to that is a definite no, they wouldn't be permitted to do as they like. Which I think is as it should be. When you visit other people in their homes and they ask you to take your shoes off, then you do it. If they don't permit smoking then you go outside to smoke. It's just basic respect for your hosts, and the same applies to countries. I lived in Australia for about 18 years, and it may have changed since I left, but at that time if you dared criticise the country in any way you were immediately shot down in flames, and told in no uncertain terms that if you didn't like it, then you should go back where you came from - and in the kind of language that made your hair stand on end. They certainly didn't pull any punches. They were happy for migrants to go there, but expected them to abide by the rules and customs of their country. If you did that you were welcomed with open arms, if you didn't they gave you a hard time, and I had no problem with that. I understood it completely.

[funkychick]

Unfortunately migrants arent welcomed with open arms in Australia, their humanitarian reputaion with people fleeing persecution isn't good at all i m sure you are welcomed if you are white have money and preferable a trade they need otherwise ' bugger orf you re not our problem'

[Cowper]

Unfortunately migrants arent welcomed with open arms in Australia, their humanitarian reputaion with people fleeing persecution isn't good at all i m sure you are welcomed if you are white have money and preferable a trade they need otherwise ' bugger orf you re not our problem'

I was referring to the time I was actually there, and I know times have changed. But actually I can say quite categorically that at that time it didn't matter if you were white, had money and a trade they needed. If you were critical of the country, its laws, customs or way of life, then they'd come down on you like a ton of bricks, and I doubt if that has changed one iota. And I'm talking about people you came into contact with on a daily basis, new friends, neighbours, people in the pubs or shops, etc. Their attitude was that migrants had presumably left their countries because they had issues there, and were seeking a better life in Oz. If newcomers were prepared to fully assimilate then fine, the Aussies were generous to a fault. What they couldn't stomach were migrants banging on about the country they'd come from, how much better this or that was, or how much they disliked this or that about Australia, and the worst sin of all, trying to change it. Then you'd definitely be told to bugger off back to where you'd come from.

They've also suffered terrorist attacks there, ok, not as large or as frequent as in the rest of the world, but they've had them. So wouldn't it be even remotely understandable if their attitude is, no, we just don't need this? The whole world is now having to deal with the problem of mass exodus from war torn countries. It's a new problem with no easy answers. ISIS atrocities is also a new problem that the whole world is grappling with and all countries are trying to balance the problem of opening their doors to refugees while at the same time needing to keep their own citizens safe from terrorists who can easily be let in at the same time. No one's got the answers at the moment, and I think the citizens of all 'host' countries also have rights and they also have fears, which I don't think should be dismissed as racist. It's called being human. Ask the people of Manchester.

[funkychick]

Sorry to continue to disagree but I have very personal experiences of blatent racism from the Australian government in the past Put that together with their treatment of their own people (aboriginal) which has been atrocious over the years and I can't change my opinion .....Of course their reactions to present day problems is on a par with many other countries and a different discussion altogether
We all see a situation or a country through the eyes of our own experiences yours were obviously positive.... mine disgusting

[Aussie K]

Most Australian governments have over the last twenty years or more have spent countless millions of of dollars on the aboriginal communities trying to encourage them to conform to mainstream Australian life style but with little success, drunkenness is rampant, idleness also, huge areas of land have been given to them and no one can enter with out permission. They for some reason cannot conform. and that may be because all the land was theres before they were colonised. There is a lot of racism out there and that is mainly against the Aborriginals and much of it quite horrid, but the two types of people are so different that living together is just impossible. so over all I cannot blame the governments, The Australian people have welcomed millions of immigrants from many nations of the world who fit in and the opportunities for all to prosper are great. but of coarse it's not all milk & Honey.

[boatbuilder]

I fail to see what all this talk about a country halfway around the world from the UK has to do with the topic subject which is about the internment of terrorists in the UK and nowhere else. If there are no further comments on the said subject then I may as well lock the topic.

[SL-Dave]

I fail to see what all this talk about a country halfway around the world from the UK has to do with the topic subject which is about the internment of terrorists in the UK and nowhere else. If there are no further comments on the said subject then I may as well lock the topic.

There is a link, although it does not appear to have been explained previously.
Australia is one of the few countries that intern refugees in refugee centres, which are basically internment centres. The Australian government is one the few countries that has a public commitment to not allow a single refugee into the country. I personally disagree with this policy as it fails to met international requirements to welcome someone in genuine need. It is also a different argument than the British have; we here are on an island that is rather full, whereas Australia is only 20% occupied.

I myself had negative views on the native Australians, the Aboriginals, due to having been mugged by some when I first visited in 1997. But I have since had my eyes opened, both by my girlfriend at the time and also by my cousin who lives there. Most Aboriginals are decent folk, and I have seen this first hand when visiting places such as Ularu and also those that work and live in the cities. Those that fail to assimilate are normally those that are fedup with continually unable to get work or even respect, and those are the people who turn to drink or drugs, which I have also seen. I would also like to point out that my cousin actually works in the Australian government for the Minister for Indigenous Affairs, and a few years ago was awarded the Australian Medal for her continued work in this area (as they do not have awards in Australia for Lords/Ladys/Baronship or MBE/OBE, the Australia Medal is actually the highest award possible).

Regarding the original post and issues:
In my view, internment is a bad idea. This idea was tried in the past, for example with Japanese or Germans living in the UK or USA during WWI and WWII, and after each war it was decided that internment was a bad idea. We really should learn from our lessons in the past. Better that 9 (presumed) guilty people are allowed to roam free than 1 innocent person be locked up.